The notation describes 'what to do with your fingers'. If you do that, you will get 'the right sound' automatically. Play the chord marked 'pp'.
Hi,This is my first sojourn into Debussy, and they are sometimes unfamiliar waters to me.Can anyone offer advice about fingering and pedaling in the two above passages? The first image is one passage, the second and third images are the second passage.Generally, how literally should the performer try to adhere to the written rhytmic values with the fingers? Some places seem impossible to play literally as written. And how to finger and pedal such wide stratches as bar three of the first image?What about 'clarity' versus 'blurring' of different harmonies? I read a comment by Gieseking that in both Debussy and Ravel, the bottom bass notes represents a pedal indication as long as the harmonies don't change.Any general or specific advice is appreciated. And if anyone can suggest a commercial edition with fingering/pedaling indications by the editor, I'll invest in it.Thanks! Claveciniste,I don't believe we 'know' each other, so perhaps my questions seem strange to you, but.I'm just curious about whether this is sightreadable for you?
Six b's experience with cancellations? Fingering planned?
Counting no problem?Why choose this as your first Debussy?About the 3rd bar: would the black key fingering rules help you a lot?Fingering RULES for scales reverts to using rules which are consistant:Left Right HandUU UU (Group of 2 black notes)32 23 FingeringLeft Right HandUUU UUU (Group of 3 black notes)432 234 FingeringYou'll need every finger!Betty. OK, for the first image: Depends on the instrument you are playing, so you'll really have to listen to see what you like best, but in general, pedaling should be on the long notes in the RH melody: on the first beat in the first measure, then again on beat 2, then 1st beat 2nd meas. & beat 2 2nd meas.
3rd meas., pedal on beat 1 and carry that all the way through beat 1 of the 4th measure.2nd image: pedal on beat 1 & 3 for all measures.As for fingering, in measure 3 of the first image, you would play the bottom 3 notes with the LH, and the others with the RH. Remember this is a roll, and so you can use fingers 1-2-3-4-5 to get all of the notes on beat one, catch all of that with the pedal, and then hold the pedal while the RH continues up for the rest of the notes.Pedaling and fingering is very much up to the performer as to what sounds the best and feels the best. There aren't always hard and fast rules. I suggest you try a few different options and see which you like the best. Just a couple of brief comments. This was the first Debussy I really learned and the first piece I chose when returning to piano after 20 years, so I don't think it's too out of line there (of course, I'm not a teacher).As it was the first Debussy piece I'd learned, I found out fairly quickly that, for me, Debussy is.very.
difficult to read (I am a good sight reader, relative to my playing skill), but once it is learned it fits very nicely under the fingers. It is mostly a matter of getting familiar with both Debussy and the key signature (if you're not already).As far as clarity goes, if the melody sings out above the rest (and as I'm sure you've noticed, almost all the dynamics markings are 'p'!), then pedaling to hold notes that are not physically possible to hold won't muddy. Web viewer for samsung dvr for mac. I play it pretty much in line with Gieseking's comment.I have a very, very marked up copy.maybe I can figure out how to post an image, I've never done that before. Thanks to all!Betty Patnude, I didn't mean to suggest I'm a complete beginner (majored in piano performance in college, so many lifetimes ago), just ten years or so out-of practice.I don't find too much difficulty with the rest of the piece.
But then, I'm not trying to work it up to concert-pro quality (not enough time).And I chose it because it is just so beautiful to the ear!Morodiene, thanks for giving me something challenging to look into this rainy weekend!ProdigalPianist, thanks for the suggestion, and if you can get your 'very marked-up' copy scanned, I'll help you get it online.Thanks again to all. I'll print all of it and work through it this weekend.
I've decided to start learning Debussy's prelude # 8 from his book I.I guess this is more popularly known as 'La fille aux cheveux de lin' or 'The girl with flaxen hair'.I'm a raw beginner and I'm not familiar with music theory, but I want to try to analyze this piece a little bit before starting in on it. Especially since it has 6 flats which I'm not used to. In fact, I seldom play in keys with more than two sharps or flats.So my first idea was to learn the scale for this key.
But what key is it? Gb major, or Eb minor?Which scale(s) should I practice? Gb major, Eb minor (melodic), Eb minor (harmonic)?How do you analyze and approach a piece when you're a complete klutz at music theory like me?I do have every intention of leaning and studying music theory this winter, but what can anyone suggest for right now, other than to forget about trying to learn this piece all together. This piece is in G-flat Major, but with some serious pentatonic inflections.
Analyzing Debussy's music is neither for the beginner not the faint of heart. He uses so many colorful harmonies, but many of them fall out of major/minor tonality, venturing into church modes, modes of limited transposition, and beyond.Besides, for your purposes, there's no reason to analyze this piece of music. Read very carefully, and spend time with each phrase figuring out the hand position and how it works with the fingers. One of the great joys of Debussy's piano music is Debussy's absolutely clean style of piano writing.
Nothing is awkward in his writing, no matter how virtuosic it may get. If you spend time figuring out how to play the piece, it will become one of those pieces that seems to play itself.Good luck! Debussy was quoted as saying that he never gave pedal indications because he felt that pedaling was too fine an art to convey on paper and that too many subpar pianists simply use the pedal to hide the fact that they are butchering the music.That being said, Debussy's music contains many rich harmonies and polytonal passages that can only be realized with rather liberal use of the pedal. To say to change on the harmonic shifts in this piece would be a little challenging for you, especially so because it is pentatonic in nature. Instead, use your ear and your best musical judgment to decide where to change pedals.As a matter of personal preference, I don't like any passage in this piece completely dry, but there are an infinite number of pedal effects that come into play in Debussy's music. The best way to find out what works for you is to experiment. I'm trying to learn a little music theory whilst learning this Debussy piece.I took a very simple online beginners lesson on music theory at the 8 notes web site.
There I learned how to build all the triads for a given scale. So since this Debussy piece is in the key of Gb major I decided to build up the triads for that scale.I did that here.Then I went to analyzed the piece. It appears to me that the chords used in the measures 5 and 6 shown in the graphic below are:Db MajorBb minorEb minorGb MajorDb Majorwhich are all in the original scale analysis, but then the next two chords appear to me to be.Bb MajorEb MajorIs that correct?What are Bb Major and Eb Major doing in a piece in the key of Gb Major?I mean they obviously sound good, but what gives? What was the original triad analysis all about?It appears to me that anything goes?Why even bother analyzing music theory if you can do anything you want?Or am I making some kind of mistake here? Ok, I never thought of using the pedal in that way.
Although I have been using the pedal quite effectively already in this piece.Even so, I think I'll stick with my re-write. I kind of like it now. It just feels right and has a nice full bodied sound.
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I actually only dropped the base Eb and replaced it with a higher octave Eb and then added a second G in the treble section to kind of help fill in the 'base sound' and it seems to work quite well.I might try the pedal method too though just to see what that feels like. I'm already getting a feel for how Debussy plays. He does seem to take a very natural path and just let things evolve in the most natural way. You might turn a few heads if you perform it with that alteration. Debussy was absolutely fascinated with the sonorities of the piano, and writing chords in widely spaced intervals was one of the many ways he experimented with piano sounds. I don't remember who it was, but someone important has been quoted that every note in Debussy is as important as the notes in Mozart. You should think long and hard before you make any changes.As the for 'wrong' chords, it seems to me that Debussy is writing in e-flat minor in this passage.
Excuse my rusty theory, but I'm pretty sure the passage is going like this:VII - v - i - III - (vi) V - INow this requires a bit of explanation. In the minor mode, the seventh and third degrees are major chords and the fifth and tonic are minor. Common chord progressions allow motion from 7 to 5 to 1, which serves as a cadence in e-flat minor; however, Debussy immediately continues motion to 3, which is allowed in common chord progressions and continues the harmonic motion. 3 moves toward 6, but Debussy 'borrows' the b-flat major chord from the major mode, which causes the b-flat to change from a submediant (6) to a dominant (5), which forces motion immediately to tonic (1). By borrowing the major chord to serve as a dominant, Debussy modulates from the minor mode to the major mode basically in one chord.
It's harmonic genius!I hope that helps. (By the way, can someone check my theory for me? I'd hate to have it be wrong and have the original poster learn bad stuff just because I'm rusty.). Ok, this may seem silly to some, but I'm just trying to make sense of things here.I've listened intently to several recordings of this piece and as far as I can tell everyone is playing it like I have written below. In fact, I've actually played this modifed score using a midi sequencer and it sounds exactly like how everyone is playing it.So I guess I'm just a little disappointed that music isn't written how it's actually played.If the base E note is suppose to be played first why not explicitly write it out as such?Just seems to me that this is laziness on the part of the composer to pay attention to the details.Dropping the base note from a chord is one thing.
Removing an entire 'lone note' is another. As far as I'm concerned, the recordings that I've heard play that E-note so distinctly separate from the rest of the chord that it's basically a note all by itself out in front of the chord.So now I see why it would be a 'head-turner' if missing. It's not just a note missing from the chord, it's a note missing from the piece! It has acquired a life of it's own!
Ok, well that's a nice recording that I haven't heard yet.I'm beginning to see the bigger picture now. It's pretty much up to the artist who's playing the piece how he or she would like to play it. And since Debussy himself wrote it in a form that is physically impossible to play then he's left it entirely open to the individual pianists to play it however they like.That's cool. Then however I decide to play it will ultimately be ok because it's my choice.See, this is the difficulty for a newbie to be learning a new piece. It's impossible to practice it before I've even made up my mind precisely how I'd like to play it.
I was originally practicing it the first way I re-wrote it (dropping the base E-note altogether). That actually doesn't sound bad to me at all. I kind of like it. But now I'm going to experiment with different ways of playing it until I find the way that I like the best. I guess I have time to decide.In the meantime I'm getting these first six measure down pretty good.
I still can't play it as fluently as I would like simply because I'm not used to playing chords, but it's coming along fairly well actually. I'm ready to move on to learn some more measures.
I used the bit-and-pieces method for learning because I'm simply unable to play the piano yet.I am learning sight-reading methods from square one. But if I had to wait until I can play something like this Debussy piece by sight-reading it I wouldn’t be ready to tackle it for several years I'm sure. So I'm going to continue with the bits-and-pieces method of learning it whilst I simultaneously play things like 'Itsy bitsy spider' to learn sight-reading.Thanks for posting that recording.
That's a nice one. In the recordings ive heard, the bottom TWO notes are played first, (the e flat and the b flat, THEN the G and B flat higher up. Youre not supposed to be able to play them at the same time.the effect of playing it like this is sort of a 'half' arpeggiated chord; slightly broken up from the bottom upwards.
The right hand can be played as a block chord or arpeggiated. I think debussy does this quite often in his music; in the sarabande from suite pour le piano, there are some huge chords which are played like this - stops the music sounding too heavy, and breaks the chord up slightly so it sounds lighter. Kriskicksass is exactly right about Debussy writing precisely the way he wanted it to sound, so deciding to just leave out the low Eb completely changes the sound of the chord, especially because of the V-I cadence (Bb to Eb), he wanted the chords in root position. It's fine if you like how it sounds as an inversion, in fact in won't sound bad at all, it's just not how it's supposed to soundI prefer to play the bass note WITH the RH chord, and roll the rest of the LH quickly but gently. I'm actually playing this in a recital next week, several teachers are playing the first 12 Debussy preludes and all the Chopin preludes in a 'Prelude' recital. It will be fun!As far as the 'scale' of the piece? It has 6 flats and ends with a Gb major harmony, so yes, it's Gb major.
But there are pentatonic elements in it as well, as Kris said. There really aren't any sections in Eb minor, but there are brief excursions to Eb Major and Cb Major.But let's not analyze it too much, for Debussy himself said,'Let us maintain that the beauty of a work of art must always remain mysterious; that is to say, it is impossible to explain exactly how it is created. Let us not attempt to destry or explain it.' (from Debussy Letters, Francois Lesure and Roger Nichols, ed.